Who Does Palmer Stand Next To in the QB Line-Up?

[The Entertainer]

Who Does Palmer Stand Next To in the QB Line-Up?
By Under Argo3. February 2010 14:27


If you took all of the starting quarterbacks from the NFL and lined them up according to skill, where would Carson Palmer be? Would you have him next to Peyton Manning and Drew Brees in front, in the middle with the likes of Matt Ryan and Jay Cutler, or in the rear of the line with JaMarcus Russel and Brady Quinn? The 2009 stats say that he belongs in the middle of the pack. He tossed for 3,094 yards in the regular season which is 18th in the NFL (the middle) and he had a 83.6 passer rating which is 16th in the NFL (exactly the middle). We all know, though, that a quarterback's passer rating and yards in one year don't necessarily decide where he stands among the other quarterbacks.

So what does? I don't think that there is a formula to figure out which QB's are good and which QB's aren't. I think that most people that know football just know. It's not hard to see that Peyton Manning is greater than his numbers will ever say he is. It's not hard to see that JaMarcus Russel isn't even as good as the bad numbers he puts up. There is an X-Factor that good quarterbacks possess. It's a culmination of leadership, arm strength, accuracy, intuition, intelligence, the ability to inspire, and a thousand other qualities that make a great quarterback. The vast majority of quarterbacks in the NFL don't have all or most of these qualities..... only a few do. Carson Palmer does.

He had a bad year; I agree with that. He's much better than he played this past year, I agree with that too. What I don't agree with is every person who thinks they know football when they say that Carson should be let go or that he's a bust. Carson Palmer has the ability to be as great as we want him to be. Personally, I put Palmer not in front of the line, but not far behind Manning, Brees, Brady, Rivers, and Warner. He doesn't belong in the middle and he certaintly doesn't belong in the rear. Don't believe me or think I don't know what I'm talking about? Dan Marino and Boomer Esiason agree.

Think about it for a few minutes. If you think that Carson belongs in the middle of the pack of NFL quarterbacks then the only person who can change your mind is Carson.... it doesn't matter what I say. I have a feeling that he'll be changing a lot of minds next season.

http://www.whodeyfans.com/post/Where...B-Line-Up.aspx

[Dr. Johnny Fever]

I rank him at #8, currently.........maybe #9. Though, has 2-4 potential among the current QBs.

[maualuga]

Originally Posted by Dr. Johnny Fever

I rank him at #8, currently.........maybe #9. Though, has 2-4 potential among the current QBs.

That seems about right. I guess he moved up the list already because Warner is gone and if Favre retires he'll move up another peg.

[jamiethelanky]

Aging, slightly affected but mechanically good QB.

Donovan McNabb?

[Storm]

Palmer has all the tools except the mental aspect, before he was drafted a Dr who evaluates personality types in athletes claimed Palmers personality would keep him from being a great QB, I laughed it off but am now wondering if the guy wasn't right.

and if you want to see the differences between great QBs and average ones is games against the Jets in the playoffs, after being shut down early by the Jets Peyton Manning was seen on the sidelines going over plays and defensive coverages with his coaches, on the other hand after being shut down early Carson was seen on the sidelines curled up to a heater while his team stood in a huddle waiting for him.

http://www.thefreelibrary.com/HEAD+G...S.-a0121867808

[Hibachi_Burrow]

Originally Posted by Storm

Palmer has all the tools except the mental aspect, before he was drafted a Dr who evaluates personality types in athletes claimed Palmers personality would keep him from being a great QB, I laughed it off but am now wondering if the guy wasn't right.

and if you want to see the differences between great QBs and average ones is games against the Jets in the playoffs, after being shut down early by the Jets Peyton Manning was seen on the sidelines going over plays and defensive coverages with his coaches, on the other hand after being shut down early Carson was seen on the sidelines curled up to a heater while his team stood in a huddle waiting for him.

http://www.thefreelibrary.com/HEAD+G...S.-a0121867808

LMFAO, 1) that doctor never spoke with the players 2) carson is always going over info and plays on the sidelines.

[Bengal_Smoov]

Carson should be top 5 based on physical gifts, but right now he's in the 15-20 range. Is he better than Brady, Sanchez, Big Ben, Flacco, Manning, Schaub, Young, Rivers, Orton, Manning, McNabb, Romo, Campbell,Farve, Rodgers, Brees, and Ryan...maybe some but where does he fit in?

[maualuga]

Originally Posted by Bengal_Smoov

Carson should be top 5 based on physical gifts, but right now he's in the 15-20 range. Is he better than Brady, Sanchez, Big Ben, Flacco, Manning, Schaub, Young, Rivers, Orton, Manning, McNabb, Romo, Campbell,Farve, Rodgers, Brees, and Ryan...maybe some but where does he fit in?

Brady - No he's not

Sancehz - Yes he is.

Big Ben - No.

Flacco - Yes.

Either Mannings - No.

Schaub - No.

Vince Young - Yes.

Rivers - No.

Orton - Yes.

McNabb - No.

Tony Romo - No.

Campbell - Yes.

Favre - No.

Rodgers - No.

Brees - No.


IMO.

[Hibachi_Burrow]

palmer right now is around 8-10. talent wise he is top 5.

[West TX Bengal Fan]

Interesting article and concept. Look at the 32 starting QBs (or combos) for the 2009 season:

AFC
East - Brady (NE), Sanchez (NYJ), Pennington/Henne (Mia), Edwards (Buff)
North - Palmer (Cin), Roethlisberger (Pitt), Flacco (Balt), Quinn/Anderson (Cle)
South - PManning (Indy), Collins/Young (TN), Schaub (Hou), Garrard (Jax)
West - Rivers (SD), Russell (Oak), Cassell (KC), Orton (Den)
NFC
East - Romo (Dall), McNabb (Phi), EManning (NYG), Campbell (Wash)
North - Favre (MN), Rodgers (GB), Cutler (Chi), Stafford (Det)
South - Brees (NO), Ryan (Atl), Delhomme/Moore (Caro), Freeman (TB)
West - Warner (AZ), Hasselbeck (Sea), ASmith (SF), Bulger/Boller (StL)

Let's just do the old school rating and give them an A - F (with pluses and minuses) grade for their careers. For QB duos, I'll stick with the guy who appears to be the QB of the future for that team, and overall I'll try to balance an even number of QBs in each category. The big factor for me is whether the guy consistently wins when he's put in a situation to accomplish that. The secondary factors are what kind of numbers the QB is putting up, what kind of leadership the QB inspires and how long the QB has produced at his current level. Here is my bias (player listed first to last in a row per my rank value):

(A+) -- PManning, Brady, Favre, Brees, Warner
(A) -- Roethlisberger
(A-) -- Rivers, Rodgers
(B+) -- Romo, McNabb, EManning
(B) -- Palmer, Schaub, Ryan
(B-) -- Young
(C+) -- Sanchez, Flacco
(C) -- Cutler, Hasselbeck
(C-) -- Cassell, Garrard, Orton
(D+) -- Stafford, Freeman
(D) -- Henne
(D-) -- Moore
(F+) -- ASmith, Campbell
(F) -- Boller, Edwards
(F-) -- Quinn, Russell

And my explanations:

A QBs -- The A+ guys all won Super Bowls and were the major factors in those wins. Roethlisberger might deserve mention in this group, but I think he just lacks the consistency of the top five. Rivers and Rodgers are the two guys who are dynamic but haven't quite won it all quite yet.

B QBs -- Romo and McNabb have the big guns but are inconsistent. Eli won a Super Bowl and had that one good run, but he still has a lot to show. The straight B QBs all have shown us something but haven't done it consistently enough to ascend while Vince Young is in a category of his own at B-.

C QBs -- C+ guys are young guys with lots of potential to move up. Straight C guys have been all over the map but equal an average in the end. The C- guys have had some good times but mostly have been average and sometimes have been awful.

D QBs -- The D+ guys are rookies who could ascend all the way to the top in time. Henne, at a straight D, is a little older but is showing promise. Moore is similar to Henne but is even a few seasons older than Henne.

F QBs -- Alex Smith and Jason Campbell have chances to ascend out of an F rating but probably won't. Boller and Edwards probably won't last in the league more than a few more seasons. Russell and Quinn ought to be out of the league now.

If you order them as they're listed, Carson Palmer is #12. If he has another average to dull year in 2010 while guys like Ryan, Schaub, Sanchez, Cutler, Flacco, Cassell, Stafford, Freeman, Henne and/or Moore pick up their games, Palmer could drop several more spots on the totem pole. On the other hand, Palmer could jump back with Rivers and Rodgers if he could regain his consistency while continuing to have big moments in clutch times as he did in the early 2009 season.

In my mind Palmer is a guy who has all the assets of a big-time NFL QB except that he just isn't the leader that you find in 8-10 of the guys who are ahead of him. That leadership means so much more than anyone credits -- everyone sees that facet in the games of guys like Peyton Manning, Favre, Brady, Rivers, Roethlisberger, Brees etc. How can you, if you're a WR, not focus on a play when you have these guys breathing fire in the huddle? And simply put, Carson just doesn't have that kind of leadership (and probably never will -- it's just not who he is).

It's not time to condemn or draw-and-quarter Palmer. It is time to get at least two more receiving targets on the outside, improve the TE as a receiving weapon and use the RBs a bit more as receivers. We all saw in the SD game this year that Palmer can still carry the team with his arm. We all saw in the Chicago and Green Bay games that he can make the clutch passes and pull the team away to win. And we saw in the Cleveland (away), Pittsburgh (home), Baltimore (away) and KC (home) games that he can pull games out with clutch plays during crunch time.

If the team is going to win, it will take concerted leadership from several guys on both sides of the ball. You have to identify those guys and feed off them. Palmer won't give that, but he can give steady, high-level play if he has the support to do so and if he remains healthy. I don't believe he'll ever ascend to the top 5 QBs in the game because he doesn't have the team support nor the individual character to do so regardless of how good a ball he throws.

[Who2Dey]

Mark it down now. Palmer will be playing back at an elite level next season. Due to the offensive playcalling the numbers may not be gaudy, but it will be shown on the field he is elite. He finally has an off season that he doesn't have to rehab ANYTHING. He can do his normal work, normal throwing, and get back in sync.

MARK IT DOWN!