West TX Roster Talk

[West TX Bengal Fan]

The Current Thread Subject Is:
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June 22, 2009 -- Post #245

General Discussion of 2009 Roster Management -- Post Spring Mini-Camps

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About This Thread
This is an ongoing discussion focusing on the manner in which the Bengals' rosters (e.g., Off-Season, 80-man Summer, 53-man Protected, 8-man Practice Squad, PUP, IR et al.) impact the franchise and its strategies.

The subjects of this thread will be changed regularly.

Participation in this thread is optional. If you are unable to express yourself in a collegial fashion or to refrain from personal attacks on other board members while posting in this thread, please do not participate.

The history of this thread is noted in the next post.

West TX Bengal Fan

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Prior Thread Subjects
1. May 1, 2009 -- Post #6 -- Post-Draft / Pre-OTAs 2009: Where is the Roster Headed?
2. May 6, 2009 -- Post #137 -- Discuss Bengals Newcomers -- Rookies & 2008 Mid-Season Practice Squad Acquisitions w/Detailed Capsules
3. May 8, 2009 -- Post #202 -- Discussion of the 2009 Roster for the Secondary (CBs and Safeties)
4. May 11, 2009 -- Post #208 -- Discussion of the 2009 Roster for the Offensive Backs (QBs, RBs and FBs)
5. May 13, 2009 -- Post #216 -- Discussion of the 2009 Roster for the Offensive Line (OCs, OGs, OTs)
6. May 15, 2009 -- Post #226 -- Discussion of the 2009 Roster for the Defensive Line & Linebackers
7. May 16, 2009 -- Post #228 -- Discussion of 2009 Roster for the WRs & TEs
8. May 2009 -- Various Posts -- Discussion of 2009 for Specials Teams and Overall Roster Management -- Pre Mandatory Mini-Camp
9. June 22, 2009 -- Post #245 -- General Discussion of 2009 Roster Management -- Post Spring Mini-Camps

[West TX Bengal Fan]

The History Behind This Thread
Many of the Bengalsworld.com faithful are familiar with my threads on the Bengals.com affiliated boards. I joined these boards about a year or two ago but have limited my posting to this point in time mostly due to the habit of accessing the Bengals.com boards while I'm reviewing the Bengals website. As most of you know, there are many issues on these other boards that inhibit a heathy interaction amongst individuals.

Recently I had started this thread at the Bengals.com boards, and it seemed to be quite popular averaging about 500 hits and 30 posts a day. Although I don't completely understand the motivation, a board administrator on that site began to participate in the thread by harassing me in a number of unreasonable manners. While completely answering the questions at hand, I also followed up by suggesting that this person participate in a more cordial manner as the other board members expect that from administrators. Unfortunately, that administrator decided to shut the thread down after which he PM'd me and warned me not to start it again. His rationale for taking this action was that there were too many confrontational posts (not true) and that he was being attacked simply for performing his job as an administrator (evidently his job description involves undue confrontation to select persons and then follow up action/punishment when those persons ask him to desist).

I want to continue the thread, but I don't want to fight administrators who aren't willing to promote their own site and/or wish to disenfranchise members who are participating in good faith to make the boards more enjoyable.

If that particular administrator is a member of this site (and Joe, you know who you are), he should be aware that he is not welcome to do anything more than read this thread (i.e., don't post in this thread or I will take action against you). To all at Bengalsworld, we'll see how this mini-Blog goes and play its continuation by ear.

West TX Bengal Fan

Addendum -- 5/4/2009
Joe, the evil administrator from Bengals.com referenced above, contacted me today to note that I am a liar. After offering no denial that he erased a 100+ post thread with over 5,000 hits simply because many participants requested he desist in his negative and unduly aggressive behaviors, he produced evidence that he did want me to start a new thread there after all. I understand that all terrorists would like their victims to rebuild their freshly downed edifices so that another easy target lay in waiting for their next bad mood. I told Joe that I appreciated that offer but would rather conduct business over here.

Oh yes, Joe didn't like the fact that I put the BengalsWorld logo in my Bengals.com sig while giving a link and inviting reasonable persons to join the fun here (see Figure 1).

Figure 1: The Offensive Post & Sig

Lil' Joe decided that this sig deserved a lifetime ban for me at that site (see Figure 2).

Figure 2: What? No Chance for Parole?!!

Well, Joe, I won't be back, I suppose. And you're still not invited here on this thread -- so there! I understand that administrators here are waiting for you to slip up so that we can send the Internet police over to your place and give you the psychiatric exam that I suggested you voluntarily submit to now. For the time being, however, I guess I'll just have to get used to being your bitch. And you'll have to get used to having this post here for good -- another reminder for all (and perhaps further supportive evidence) of the rumor that you were kicked off the police force way back when (when you used to have a real job).

The Pride of Florence ???

Addendum -- May 6, 2009
It was brought to my attention today that the above notes, being satiric towards an individual, violate my own first law against Ad Hominem attacks. In consideration of that I am asking for proof that Joe is human. That will require a DNA test to verify 46 chromosomes and a psychologic profile to verify that he indeed doesn't think he is God. Once those two pieces of evidence are in, I suppose I will be forced to remove the above notes. In discussing these needs with colleagues, several brought up the fact that the DNA test should yield a 46-XY chromosome karyotype while the pyschologic test should confirm that he is indeed a man of legal age. While those may indeed be valid concerns in regard to the definition of the term "man" [as inferred from "Ad Hominem" -- Latin: Against Man), we all finally agreed that the broader meaning of "man" (i.e., a member of the Homo sapiens species) should be utilized in this case. So Joe, that will save you some money by lowering the bar somewhat and reducing the test costs you would have to incur to prove yourself to us. If it turns out that you are just a Neanderthal or Sasquatch, we could always put you in a sideshow and make a buck that way. Or you could just stay on as a quasi-human, Nazi Bengal Internet Storm Trooper, for which we all agree you have great aptitude.

Addendum -- May 11, 2009
Seems like we have another one of Joe's minions attempting to shame us to remove these notes of our origins (See Post #204). Maybe Joe ought to quit having cronies post on this site when he's been expressly informed that he is not invited. He's like the guy with B.O. from whom you keep walking away only to have him continuously finding his way back to you like a rotten piece of Limberger stuck to your shoe. Why is Joe so concerned about what is written on Bengals World when he's already the Chief Perpetrator of the civilized Bengal Internet? We think it may be due to his relative insecurity as an individual and the fact that he can't control the entire Internet to worship his every act. As we pointed out earlier and subtly hint here once again, Joe appears to have totalitarian tendencies -- hence his activity as the foremost Nazi Bengal Internet Storm Trooper. Now we believe that he may be recruiting the minds of unsuspecting Bengals World participants in an attempt to once again hide the truths that our Roster Talk staff has worked so hard to uncover. And before we go, let it be clear to everyone: we have worked hard to find content that may be true. So when we heard rumors that were really hard to believe, we refrained from posting them. Just so you know, Joe, those included (with reasons why we found them hard to believe in parenthesis):

* Cheating on your Internet IQ test to get a score of 96 (everyone knows you got a 96 without cheating)
* Having a love child with Marge Schott back in the 80's (we didn't think she'd stoop that low)
* Being the bastard child of Mike Brown (Small mind, small stature: check; lack of money: bad fit)
* Taking money out of the church basket (Satan's progeny wouldn't go into a church)
* Stealing from the March of Dimes contributions at McDonald's (you couldn't reach the counter and your fingers are too fat)
* Participating in the 9-11 attacks (you've never been out of the Greater Cincinnati area)
* Having a crush on Greg Brady (we think Danny Partridge is more your style)

So whether these exercises are "childish" or not, we'll continue to post them to remind all of our friends that you are not to be trusted whether that be in our domain or yours.

[Dr. Johnny Fever]

Originally Posted by West TX Bengal Fan

The History of This Thread

lol, great post. REP!!!!!!!

[Dr. Johnny Fever]

TEs....who do you think is going to get the axe and who is going to make the 53. Same goes for FB. I think we have 3 FBs heading into camp at this point.

[West TX Bengal Fan]

Originally Posted by West TX Bengal Fan

The History of This Thread

Originally Posted by Dr. Johnny Fever

lol, great post. REP!!!!!!!

Great to see that administrators here have a sense of humor and know what's really going on over at Bengals.com where totalitarianism is considered normal.

[West TX Bengal Fan]

Post-Draft / Pre-OTAs 2009: Where is the Roster Headed?

First of all, it's a numbers game. You get up to 90 guys on the roster in off-season and 80 guys on the summer camp roster. Guys who are not under contract (e.g., unsigned draft picks, tendered FAs who haven't signed their contracts) don't count against these lists. Injured players can be kept on the summer and regular season injury rosters (PUP, IR) without counting against the teams limits while they do count against the off-season roster. If you have other specific questions about the roster rules, give me a holler.

Typically the Bengals go into a regular season with this approximate 53-man Roster:
QB - 3
RB - 3
FB - 1
WR - 6
TE - 3
OL - 9
DT - 4
DE - 4
LB - 7
CB - 5
S - 5
ST - 3 (K, P, LS)

Of course, there are often small adjustments to this list to accommodate the teams available talent or injury situations at any given point in time. For instance, I have recently set my expectations that the team will expand the DE roster number to 5 this year and will reduce the LBs to 6 (noting that Michael Johnson will be listed a DE and will play some SAM LB as well).

With these 53-man roster target numbers, here are some rough summer camp roster numbers for which I believe we'll target (number to the right of arrow reflects my expectation of players to be kept on 2009 roster):

QB - 4 → 3
RB - 6 → 3
FB - 3 → 1
WR - 9 → 1
TE - 5 → 3
OL - 14 → 9
DT - 6 → 4
DE - 7 → 5
LB - 9 → 6
CB - 7 → 5
S - 7 → 5
ST - 3 → 3

Before I go further, I note that it should be understood that this is where I think we're at right now and that this will change some as we make final roster tweaks prior to opening day, sustain injuries, make acquisitions etc.

Breaking down the positions:

QB: Jordan Palmer is expected to fight the CFA QB (currently Billy Farris) for the #3 QB roster spot

RB: After Cedric Benson as our #1, I expect there to be two roster battles for the other two RB spots:
-- Backup Feature RB: Watson vs. Scott vs. James Johnson
-- 3rd Down RB: Watson vs. Dorsey vs. Lucky
* If a quality veteran RB becomes available, we might be inclined to make a value acquisition.
* Right now a potential PS spot battle could feature James Johnson vs. Scott vs. Lucky

FB: Currently the roster is heavy by one FB. I expect us to decide in the next few weeks whether to keep Jeremi Johnson for the summer. If we do, expect us to waive J.D. Runnels prior to camp. Typically we keep one FB (the starter) on the 53-man roster and his backup on our PS. If Coats doesn't earn a roster spot at TE, expect either Vakapuna or Pressley to at least earn a PS invite. One of these guys could also be our next starting FB if Jeremi doesn't answer the bell. It seems that this spot is really up for grabs.

WR: We're heavy here three players at present. We might go to camp one heavier than my rough number (9), but that still means that we'll waive 2 guys before then. Right now I'd think that the two new CFAs (Orton & Richmond) are the top bubble guys while either Purify or Urrutia may also not make it to camp if we end up keeping Chad for the 2009 season. We're pretty thick here with five relative locks in Chad, Coles, Henry, Caldwell & Simpson. Since none of these five are PRs (and the rest of our roster is limited in that respect), I expect Chatman and Cosby to fight it out for the 6th WR spot (as our WR/PR guy) while we again consider 1-2 guys for our PS.

TE: Of the five we currently have, I think that Utecht and Coffman are the locks. Contrary to public opinion, Reggie Kelly is not a lock and will probably have to fight off Coats for the third spot as the blocking TE (loser go home). I'm still not sure where Sherry fits in, but I'd have to think that he's targeted again for the PS unless he comes in and shows something a lot better than what we expect of him.

OL: If we take 14 to camp, we're one heavy right now. A knee jerk response to the question about who to move yields the name of Levi Jones here, and his agent seems to be announcing that to as a done deal to anyone who will listen. But that seems to leave us inexperienced at OT and without a guy who at present is clearly ID'd for the starting LT spot. So the job for the coaches in the next few days is to figure out if they want to start OTAs with Smith at LT or whether they'd rather have Smith at RT and either Whit, Colins or Levi at LT. After that we can figure if we get rid of Levi sooner rather than later. I'd say that if we move Levi, then we'd like to find another guy with experience who can play OT in a pinch. Right now I count Smith, Luigs, Whitworth, Williams, Collins and one of the two vet OCs (Cook or Santucci) as our 6 locks for the final OL roster. That leaves three more roster spots to likely come from the group of Livings, Kooistra, Roland, Mathis and the vet OC who doesn't win the summer match up to be the starter. One would think that Roland would have a strong edge for a spot as he's the only guy of these five who is reliable at OT. Mathis and the remaining vet OC have an advantage in that both can play OC and OG. Livings finally got some game experience in 2008 while Kooistra remains a marginal backup. There are a few other guys who will go to camp -- maybe 1 or 2 will get a PS offer.

DT: We currently have our projected 6 to take to camp. Expect Shirley, Harris and McDonald to fight for the 4th spot with Shirley expected to be the favorite while Shirley or McDonald could get a PS invite if they don't make the team (I expect us to keep Shirley and try to bring McDonald back to the PS).

DE: We currently have our projected 7 for camp. i expect us to keep 5 while Harrington and Cline should fight for a possible PS spot.

LB: We currently have our projected 9 for camp. I expect us to go one lighter while keeping 6 this year as we'll also use Michael Johnson some at SAM LB evidently. It would seem that Maxwell, Hodge and Skuta are the bubble guys while the latter two are eligible for a PS spot.

CB: We currently have our projected 7 for camp. The locks should be JJo, Hall, Trent and David Jones with Castille, Pope and Rico Murray fighting for a roster spot. This may be a position at which we'd consider an experienced vet FA acquisition to be a nickel/dime guy and spot starter in case of injuries.

S: We currently have 6 guys for camp -- probably a guy light. There's still the possibility that we'll bring Roy Williams in if he'll sign a one-year value deal. Or we could bring John Busing back for yet another reprise. The rookie CFA Tom Nelson will get serious consideration for a roster spot as he was a standout KR/PR and punt team gunner at Illinois State last year while also playing a FS/CB position that featured extensive man coverage in their scheme. We'd probably like him just as a guy who can return punts. The roster locks at S are Crocker & Ndukwe. Heavily favored is Marvin White if he's back in time for camp (as he says he'll be) and if he's 100% back to normal. That leaves Hebert, Lynch and Nelson to potentially fight for two roster spots (unless we sign Roy Williams).

STs: It seems we'll simply bring our expected three starters into camp and go with them.

Summary
I think we'll consider further acquisitions at RB, OT, S and CB based on prior discussions, remaining perceived quantity roster needs for summer camp and/or remaining perceived quality roster needs for the final 53-man squad. Right now the rough quantity projections for our summer camp roster would call for us to release one FB, one OL and three WRs while picking up a S prior to August. While the the final moves may vary slightly, expect our net moves to resemble something of this nature.

[whodey1967]

Originally Posted by West TX Bengal Fan

Post-Draft / Pre-OTAs 2009: Where is the Roster Headed?

I think the roster is headed in a direction that will be both interesting for the fans, and uncomfortable to some of the players that are basically just hanging out on the sidelines.
watson, and dorsey are both on the hot seat IMO and they need to really step it up with the signing of Lucky and the drafting of Scott.

[ONYX]

Originally Posted by whodey1967

I think the roster is headed in a direction that will be both interesting for the fans, and uncomfortable to some of the players that are basically just hanging out on the sidelines.
watson, and dorsey are both on the hot seat IMO and they need to really step it up with the signing of Lucky and the drafting of Scott.

I agree 100%

Excellent observation.

[whodey1967]

Originally Posted by ONYX

I agree 100%

Excellent observation.

thanks!

This draft is bound to be a major success that we can all rely on for quite a few years, and it is the kind of draft that makes championship teams.

Lookout overpaid veterans...there are quite a few new kids on the block, most of which have a chip on their shoulder and have something to prove to many.

[Dr. Johnny Fever]

I think the roster is headed in a direction that ignores the requests and suggestions of malcontent from the Chad Johnson's, Corey Dillons, and Carl Pickens of the world. The more Mike gives in the better it gets, but every time it gets a little better....Mike can't resist the temptation to put his hands back in the cookie jar. Let's hope he has learned his lesson by now and lets the success breath for a while and grow properly.

[whodey1967]

Originally Posted by Dr. Johnny Fever

I think the roster is headed in a direction that ignores the requests and suggestions of malcontent from the Chad Johnson's, Corey Dillons, and Carl Pickens of the world. The more Mike gives in the better it gets, but every time it gets a little better....Mike can't resist the temptation to put his hands back in the cookie jar. Let's hope he has learned his lesson by now and lets the success breath for a while and grow properly.

I agree Fever, but I want to see a good balance between the O and the D on the field, and I have no faith that Brat and his one page playbook can come close to what Zimmer is doing for our D.

[IKOTA]

Nice thread and one that is sure to stimulate lively "debate". Before the long conversation starts, my initial observation of the draft as it relates to the final roster is that I believe there will be no less than 7 players from this draft to not only make the roster, but who have a chance to start at some point this year, or if not start than get significant playing time. These players IMO are:
Andre Smith
Rey Maualuga
Michael Johnson
Chase Coffman
Jonathan Luigs
Kevin Huber
Bernard Scott
Fui Vakapunu

We know for sure that 6 players will either be starting or involved in a rotation at their position....specifically Michael Johnson.

Now, West TX, please point us in the direction you want this thread to proceed. I think you'll be (pleasantly) surprised at the quality of posters who will make their input in this thread.

[whodey1967]

Originally Posted by IKOTA

Nice thread and one that is sure to stimulate lively "debate". Before the long conversation starts, my initial observation of the draft as it relates to the final roster is that I believe there will be no less than 7 players from this draft to not only make the roster, but who have a chance to start at some point this year, or if not start than get significant playing time. These players IMO are:
Andre Smith
Rey Maualuga
Michael Johnson
Chase Coffman
Jonathan Luigs
Kevin Huber
Bernard Scott
Fui Vakapunu

We know for sure that 6 players will either be starting or involved in a rotation at their position....specifically Michael Johnson.

Now, West TX, please point us in the direction you want this thread to proceed. I think you'll be (pleasantly) surprised at the quality of posters who will make their input in this thread.

nice that you pointed out Michael johnson...I am extremely excited about this guy...it's nice that everyone is talking about Rey, but I'd almost bet that Johnson has a better rookie year.

[West TX Bengal Fan]

Originally Posted by Dr. Johnny Fever

TEs....who do you think is going to get the axe and who is going to make the 53. Same goes for FB. I think we have 3 FBs heading into camp at this point.

OK, the history is officially underway (LOL).

Overall, this is a loaded question. I made some notes in my overview response to the current thread that gives some basic idea of what I expect the roster locks to be as well as who I expect to content for the rest of the spots. Like any year, 2009 will feature some surprises. But there's going to be some heavy camp competition at almost every backup position.

At FB I think we'll first make a decision in OTAs whether Jeremi can still play. If the answer is yes, we'll cut J.D. Runnels before summer camp. If the answer is no, we'll cut Jeremi. I'm not sure that Runnels will stay even if Jeremi goes, but that likely remains undecided. I personally hope that we cut Jeremi for good as I don't think that the guy is reliable while we've got two big, hungry rookies to work with now.

[West TX Bengal Fan]

Originally Posted by whodey1967

I think the roster is headed in a direction that will be both interesting for the fans, and uncomfortable to some of the players that are basically just hanging out on the sidelines.
watson, and dorsey are both on the hot seat IMO and they need to really step it up with the signing of Lucky and the drafting of Scott.

I'm guessing that it will come down to 3D vs. Watson for that 3rd Down RB spot with Dorsey having the edge if he stays healthy and can handle the blitz pass blocking -- two big "ifs" there, though. Right now without acquiring anymore RB talent, I suspect that Bernard Scott is headed for a roster spot as the backup feature RB.

OL will be a jumble between now and August, and I expect us to make one relevant acquisition before then in addition to moving Levi off the roster.

WR is interesting mostly for all the guys who basically have little or no chance to make the roster. The big fight is Cosby vs. Chatman for the WR/PR spot -- my money is on Cosby (love that guy).

The final DT spot will be a great battle to watch. We'll finally get to find out if Shirley has got any game.

The CB battle seems boring because we are experience and talent bereft after our starters -- we still could use a vet to come in on a one-year deal.

At S I think Kyries Hebert may be the guy who is most on the bubble. At the same time, we don't know whether Lynch can survive the pro style game while the CFA has a lot to offer us as a guy who returns kicks and can play both FS and CB.

There's no sense, however, in me trying to guess which bubble guys are better. I don't know, and I don't think the coaches do either. Best to leave it at that.

[West TX Bengal Fan]

Originally Posted by IKOTA

Nice thread and one that is sure to stimulate lively "debate". Before the long conversation starts, my initial observation of the draft as it relates to the final roster is that I believe there will be no less than 7 players from this draft to not only make the roster, but who have a chance to start at some point this year, or if not start than get significant playing time. These players IMO are:
Andre Smith
Rey Maualuga
Michael Johnson
Chase Coffman
Jonathan Luigs
Kevin Huber
Bernard Scott
Fui Vakapunu

We know for sure that 6 players will either be starting or involved in a rotation at their position....specifically Michael Johnson.

Now, West TX, please point us in the direction you want this thread to proceed. I think you'll be (pleasantly) surprised at the quality of posters who will make their input in this thread.

You guys are doing great. I'll probably check in once or twice a day to answer questions and participate. When the thread starts to get stale, I will change the topic at the top of the first post. This keeps the thread running but keeps the debate current. The prior questions posed are left at the bottom of the first post with a post # reference in case anyone wants to go back and revive or further discuss that topic.

The idea is for everyone to share knowledge thereby giving us all a chance to learn from each other. You'll see that I try to stick to the Bengals ideology in my posts -- not because I'm in love with it but rather because I think it's senseless to post based on what I want to see rather than what I know is likely to be done within our coaching scheme. So when someone says, "I think we ought to switch to the 3-4 base on D" or "I think we're going to go to a Pro Set Offense with split RBs," I usually ignore it or simply state that we don't and likely won't use those sets in our baseline schemes.

As for your 8 players who should be heavy contributors, I agree to the point that it's all in reference to potential right now. Once the pads go on, we'll have to see who gets injured and which guys are making the transition well. Smith and Huber will start right away. If Vakapuna survives the cage match, he'll start too. Johnson, Maualuga and Coffman will be contributors who hopefully improve over the season as David Pollack did in 2005. Scott, I think, is the real deal. We must remember that he's a 26 year old guy who has a lot of wear on his tread (i.e., 500+ carries and 90+ pass receptions in the last two college seasons), so I suspect his pro career will be relatively short. Finally, Luigs is the guy who is least likely to make any impact for multiple reasons:
* He's at one of the two toughest positions on the field in regard to the learning curve from college to pros (other one is QB)
* Like all other rookie OCs, he needs time to get into the weight room and begin the focused physical development he'll need to succeed
* He'll be behind at least one vet who has 2 more years in the Bengal system

Overall, however, this draft should make a Bengal fan very excited as it could turn out to be one of the great NFL drafts in this decade with just a little luck.

[West TX Bengal Fan]

Originally Posted by whodey1967

nice that you pointed out Michael johnson...I am extremely excited about this guy...it's nice that everyone is talking about Rey, but I'd almost bet that Johnson has a better rookie year.

Watching the locker room interview with him today, it's hard not to notice a number of things:

* The guy is extremely polite -- evidently his dad is a retired Marine drill sergeant
* Man that guy is tall
* Watching him run, he doesn't look as tall as he is. He's got a really strange body morphology with big legs and very narrow hips and waist. And he runs semi-pigeon toed.
* I can't quit thinking about Julius Peppers when I watch Michael Johnson.

[Bengalzona]

Hey West TX! Good to see you!

[Hibachi_Burrow]

as this is similar to what we did last year. we will have our 53 man predictions thread go up sometime next week. i will probably put it up on tuesday.


now continue the good discussion.

[yorkshirebengal]

from all the battle for starting spots i have to say that fullback does seem to be the most interesting.

a couple of years ago we wouldn't even consider this debate as jeremi johnson would be a lock who was part of our untouchable offense but his attitude went down hill and his play followed. i seriously think that if vakapuna comes to camp with the wanting attitude to not only make the team but help us win then i can see the coaches taking a big notice of that.

no one knows how johnson will play after his weight and injury problems but then no one knows how vakapuna will play so an air of mystery certainly surrounds this spot.

i personally think that if vakapuna has a good work ethic and can show what he is capable of then he will be the starter come our game with denver in september, i think its going to be very tough for johnson to get back into the team.

[West TX Bengal Fan]

Originally Posted by Bengalzona

Hey West TX! Good to see you!

You as well -- I guess we can have some peace over here.

[ONYX]

Originally Posted by West TX Bengal Fan

You as well -- I guess we can have some peace over here.

[West TX Bengal Fan]

Originally Posted by yorkshirebengal

from all the battle for starting spots i have to say that fullback does seem to be the most interesting.

a couple of years ago we wouldn't even consider this debate as jeremi johnson would be a lock who was part of our untouchable offense but his attitude went down hill and his play followed. i seriously think that if vakapuna comes to camp with the wanting attitude to not only make the team but help us win then i can see the coaches taking a big notice of that.

no one knows how johnson will play after his weight and injury problems but then no one knows how vakapuna will play so an air of mystery certainly surrounds this spot.

i personally think that if vakapuna has a good work ethic and can show what he is capable of then he will be the starter come our game with denver in september, i think its going to be very tough for johnson to get back into the team.

I agree that Jeremi is going to have to be "way better" than all other candidates in order to win the job as we know that he's a risk. Personally, I would not have given him another chance, but we don't know all the circumstances of his prior weight problems. There could have been a problem (e.g., diabetes, thyroid problem, depression) that wasn't diagnosed and was leading to the problem or he may have been unable to work out (e.g., resting a 2007 injury) leading to weight gain -- who knows? But in the end he put the team in a very bad position last summer, and that won't be forgotten.

We drafted Fui Vakapuna, who is a little smaller and less experienced than Jeremi. One one guy that may be escaping our notice is recent CFA signing Chris Pressley, who we signed out of Wisconsin. Pressley is an all Academic Big 10 who goes about 5-11, 260 and was lead blocker for a 1,000-yard back all 4 of his years at Wisconsin. He's my pick to be our FB come regular season, but that's a long way off.

[ONYX]

Originally Posted by West TX Bengal Fan

I agree that Jeremi is going to have to be "way better" than all other candidates in order to win the job as we know that he's a risk. Personally, I would not have given him another chance, but we don't know all the circumstances of his prior weight problems. There could have been a problem (e.g., diabetes, thyroid problem, depression) that wasn't diagnosed and was leading to the problem or he may have been unable to work out (e.g., resting a 2007 injury) leading to weight gain -- who knows? But in the end he put the team in a very bad position last summer, and that won't be forgotten.

We drafted Fui Vakapuna, who is a little smaller and less experienced than Jeremi. One one guy that may be escaping our notice is recent CFA signing Chris Pressley, who we signed out of Wisconsin. Pressley is an all Academic Big 10 who goes about 5-11, 260 and was lead blocker for a 1,000-yard back all 4 of his years at Wisconsin. He's my pick to be our FB come regular season, but that's a long way off.

As far as the FB position goes, I give Jeremi Johnson the edge.

Let us not forget that despite his weight issues, when he was healthy
and in playing shape, he was one of the best fullbacks. I believe he
was even a Pro Bowl alternate a couple of years ago.

The way I see it, if Johnson can show that he's still got some good
football ahead of him, then its hard for me to see a rookie taking the
job.

Either way, its a win-win for the Bengals because Pressley and
Vakapuna, at the very least, will push Johnson.

[West TX Bengal Fan]

Originally Posted by ONYX

As far as the FB position goes, I give Jeremi Johnson the edge.

Let us not forget that despite his weight issues, when he was healthy
and in playing shape, he was one of the best fullbacks. I believe he
was even a Pro Bowl alternate a couple of years ago.

The way I see it, if Johnson can show that he's still got some good
football ahead of him, then its hard for me to see a rookie taking the
job.

Either way, its a win-win for the Bengals because Pressley and
Vakapuna, at the very least, will push Johnson.

Yes, the key point here is competition.

One thing I try to remember about NFL players is that things tend to change more than they stay the same. This especially goes for assessing individual player talent over time. The FB position is a punishing one, and many top end players don't last more than 4-5 years. Think of the Bengal type FB as a human battering ram, and that's a tough role no matter how you slice it. You figure that Jeremi played 4 tough years in which he was the only FB blocking for about 400 lead carries a year. We think it's tough on a RB to carry that many times, but at least he gets to avoid defenders as much as he can. Not every FB is a Lorenzo Neal in terms of longevity, so I'm personally okay with waiting to see what Jeremi has in the tank before I pencil him in as any sort of favorite.

[whodey1967]

Originally Posted by West TX Bengal Fan

Yes, the key point here is competition.

One thing I try to remember about NFL players is that things tend to change more than they stay the same. This especially goes for assessing individual player talent over time. The FB position is a punishing one, and many top end players don't last more than 4-5 years. Think of the Bengal type FB as a human battering ram, and that's a tough role no matter how you slice it. You figure that Jeremi played 4 tough years in which he was the only FB blocking for about 400 lead carries a year. We think it's tough on a RB to carry that many times, but at least he gets to avoid defenders as much as he can. Not every FB is a Lorenzo Neal in terms of longevity, so I'm personally okay with waiting to see what Jeremi has in the tank before I pencil him in as any sort of favorite.

Tight End is where my interest is leaning towards.
We have:
Coats
Sherry
Kelly
Utecht
Coffman

with the history of only keeping 3 on the 53 man roster, it is my opinion that Marvin will be faced with some demons on this one.

He loves Reggie Kelly because of his leadership skills, plus he is a good run blocker, but has limited pass catching ability.

Utecht came in last year and was talked up big time by the coaching staff as the next big thing, and although he got hurt, showed some decent skills in the passing game before the injury. (most of his drops came post injury)

Sherry also got alot of lip service as supposedly a hot prospect, but saw very limited playing time.

Coats...well, the FB idea was maybe not the best idea, but may have extended his career by a year here in cincy.

Coffman apparently brings all the skills of a Dallas Clark or Jay Novacek type TE, and the fans are already in love with this kid.

I personally think that Coffman is the key as to how this is going to shake down...if he can show blocking skills that exceed his expectations, then I think it is a no brainer that Kelly is gone.

I think the battle from there is going to be between Coats and Sherry, and I think that Sherry has the edge simply because Coats has been here longer and has shown little.

So that leaves Utecht, Sherry and Coffman on the roster.
This is how I expect it will go, but I have been suprised before.

[wildcats forever]

Originally Posted by whodey1967

Tight End is where my interest is leaning towards.
We have:
Coats
Sherry
Kelly
Utecht
Coffman

with the history of only keeping 3 on the 53 man roster, it is my opinion that Marvin will be faced with some demons on this one.

He loves Reggie Kelly because of his leadership skills, plus he is a good run blocker, but has limited pass catching ability.

Utecht came in last year and was talked up big time by the coaching staff as the next big thing, and although he got hurt, showed some decent skills in the passing game before the injury. (most of his drops came post injury)

Sherry also got alot of lip service as supposedly a hot prospect, but saw very limited playing time.

Coats...well, the FB idea was maybe not the best idea, but may have extended his career by a year here in cincy.

Coffman apparently brings all the skills of a Dallas Clark or Jay Novacek type TE, and the fans are already in love with this kid.

I personally think that Coffman is the key as to how this is going to shake down...if he can show blocking skills that exceed his expectations, then I think it is a no brainer that Kelly is gone.

I think the battle from there is going to be between Coats and Sherry, and I think that Sherry has the edge simply because Coats has been here longer and has shown little.

So that leaves Utecht, Sherry and Coffman on the roster.
This is how I expect it will go, but I have been suprised before.

Wow '67, I've had the same discussion with myself on this, and feel pretty much the same except for allowing Coats an edge over Sherry due to his blocking. Maybe Sherry has a spot on the PS?
Regarding, Kelly I think he has to go so we can eliminate one area of predictability from our stagnant offense. Of course that means Brat has to be up for such a radical change

[Hibachi_Burrow]

Originally Posted by whodey1967

Tight End is where my interest is leaning towards.
We have:
Coats
Sherry
Kelly
Utecht
Coffman

with the history of only keeping 3 on the 53 man roster, it is my opinion that Marvin will be faced with some demons on this one.

He loves Reggie Kelly because of his leadership skills, plus he is a good run blocker, but has limited pass catching ability.

Utecht came in last year and was talked up big time by the coaching staff as the next big thing, and although he got hurt, showed some decent skills in the passing game before the injury. (most of his drops came post injury)

Sherry also got alot of lip service as supposedly a hot prospect, but saw very limited playing time.

Coats...well, the FB idea was maybe not the best idea, but may have extended his career by a year here in cincy.

Coffman apparently brings all the skills of a Dallas Clark or Jay Novacek type TE, and the fans are already in love with this kid.

I personally think that Coffman is the key as to how this is going to shake down...if he can show blocking skills that exceed his expectations, then I think it is a no brainer that Kelly is gone.

I think the battle from there is going to be between Coats and Sherry, and I think that Sherry has the edge simply because Coats has been here longer and has shown little.

So that leaves Utecht, Sherry and Coffman on the roster.
This is how I expect it will go, but I have been suprised before.

Sherry didnt get very limited PT last year, he was put on the IR before the season started because he was out for the year.

Our TEs are probably the 2nd easiest position after QB to pick. It will no doubt be:
Kelly
Utecht
Coffman

[wildcats forever]

Originally Posted by West TX Bengal Fan

The History of This Thread
Many of the Bengalsworld.com faithful are familiar with my threads on the Bengals.com affiliated boards. I joined these boards about a year or two ago but have limited my posting to this point in time mostly due to the habit of accessing the Bengals.com boards while I'm reviewing the Bengals website. As most of you know, there are many issues on these other boards that inhibit a heathy interaction amongst individuals.

Recently I had started this thread at the Bengals.com boards, and it seemed to be quite popular averaging about 500 hits and 30 posts a day. Although I don't completely understand the motivation, a board administrator on that site began to participate in the thread by harassing me in a number of unreasonable manners. While completely answering the questions at hand, I also followed up by suggesting that this person participate in a more cordial manner as the other board members expect that from administrators. Unfortunately, that administrator decided to shut the thread down after which he PM'd me and warned me not to start it again. His rationale for taking this action was that there were too many confrontational posts (not true) and that he was being attacked simply for performing his job as an administrator (evidently his job description involves undue confrontation to select persons and then follow up action/punishment when those persons ask him to desist).

I want to continue the thread, but I don't want to fight administrators who aren't willing to promote their own site and/or wish to disenfranchise members who are participating in good faith to make the boards more enjoyable.

If that particular administrator is a member of this site (and Joe, you know who you are), he should be aware that he is not welcome to do anything more than read this thread (i.e., don't post in this thread or I will take action against you). To all at Bengalsworld, we'll see how this mini-Blog goes and play its continuation by ear.

West TX Bengal Fan

Just a quick note to say I'm glad you are continuing this as a carryover from the other site. That board's loss - this board's gain! Thanks much WTBF.

[whodey1967]

Originally Posted by wildcats forever

Wow '67, I've had the same discussion with myself on this, and feel pretty much the same except for allowing Coats an edge over Sherry due to his blocking. Maybe Sherry has a spot on the PS?
Regarding, Kelly I think he has to go so we can eliminate one area of predictability from our stagnant offense. Of course that means Brat has to be up for such a radical change

the reason I pick Sherry to beat out Coats is because Coats has been here longer and has had more opportunity to learn the position and have it translate onto the field, and if he and Sherry are even close to each other in on-field output, then obviously Sherry wins it...I like Daniel though, he is simply a very nice guy.
good to see you over here BTW.

[whodey1967]

Originally Posted by Jerome Simpson Cult Leader

Sherry didnt get very limited PT last year, he was put on the IR before the season started because he was out for the year.

Our TEs are probably the 2nd easiest position after QB to pick. It will no doubt be:
Kelly
Utecht
Coffman

Alot of the reason I think Kelly is gone is simply because of the size of his paycheck and the fact that he is so one deminsional in the offense...I can almost see him being released fairly soon so that he can have the opportunity to pick up with another team...just makes sense to me.

[wildcats forever]

Originally Posted by whodey1967

the reason I pick Sherry to beat out Coats is because Coats has been here longer and has had more opportunity to learn the position and have it translate onto the field, and if he and Sherry are even close to each other in on-field output, then obviously Sherry wins it...I like Daniel though, he is simply a very nice guy.
good to see you over here BTW.

Good to be here, thanks!
I also give Coats an edge because of the FB experiment from last year. You have a good point with Sherry, being given a lot of accolades without having much time to prove them. I'm not rooting for anyone in particular other than I want the best out there of course, no matter who they are. I just wish I had a better feeling about still having Brat calling the shots.

[whodey1967]

Originally Posted by Jerome Simpson Cult Leader

Sherry didnt get very limited PT last year, he was put on the IR before the season started because he was out for the year.

Our TEs are probably the 2nd easiest position after QB to pick. It will no doubt be:
Kelly
Utecht
Coffman

I think the easiest position to pick is Punter and Kicker

[Hibachi_Burrow]

Originally Posted by whodey1967

Alot of the reason I think Kelly is gone is simply because of the size of his paycheck and the fact that he is so one deminsional in the offense...I can almost see him being released fairly soon so that he can have the opportunity to pick up with another team...just makes sense to me.

the big reason kelly wont be going anywhere is his ability to run block. neither utecht or coffman are great blockers and we want to run down teams throats so we need a TE who can block. plus he is a leader on our team. he will be there because he is huge for our running game.

Originally Posted by whodey1967

I think the easiest position to pick is Punter and Kicker

there is no picking those haha.

[wildcats forever]

Originally Posted by yorkshirebengal

from all the battle for starting spots i have to say that fullback does seem to be the most interesting.

a couple of years ago we wouldn't even consider this debate as jeremi johnson would be a lock who was part of our untouchable offense but his attitude went down hill and his play followed. i seriously think that if vakapuna comes to camp with the wanting attitude to not only make the team but help us win then i can see the coaches taking a big notice of that.

no one knows how johnson will play after his weight and injury problems but then no one knows how vakapuna will play so an air of mystery certainly surrounds this spot.

i personally think that if vakapuna has a good work ethic and can show what he is capable of then he will be the starter come our game with denver in september, i think its going to be very tough for johnson to get back into the team.

From little I have seen of Vakapuna, he does impress but he has to show he can block at a high level to win the job IMO. He sure seems to have game though - a tough one to let go it seems.